Another Mascot Vote??

[Chucky_38]

BEGIN SOAPBOX


A few things:

They're not getting rid of the name "Rebels". They have been very clear about this so, until they say they're going to do this, all of the complaints about it aren't warranted.

And yes, it is political. What isn't these days? However, it isn't the politics many of y'all are alluding to. It isn't the "liberal PC crowd" politics; it's the "let's be pragmatic about our univerisity" academic politics. Getting rid of the confederate imagery betters our university and, vicariously, the state. Consider the following:

-Ole Miss' Phi Beta Kappa chapter
-The Honors College
-The Department of Public Policy and Leadership
-The Thad Chochran Research Center
-The Croft Institute
-The Center for Southern Studies
-The new residential colleges
-The Fed Ex Academic Support Center
-The Gertrude Castellow Ford Center (where the debate was held)
-Significant expansion of football, baseball, and basketball facilities
-More successful programs in football and baseball
-An endowment nearing a half of a billion dollars

Unless I'm mistaken, every single one of these things are new developments. None of them have been around longer than 10-15 years, with many being only a few years old. These things are the very selling points the university uses to bring in new students, professors, and (here's the kicker) donations.

When we had the confederate flag at games, Dixie as an "unofficial fight song", Colonel Reb, etc., big time donors and corporate sponsors didn't want a d*** thing to do with Ole Miss. I know this because my father worked for the medical school from 1993 until just a few years ago. He heard this from Khayat, Jones, and every other significant administrator Ole Miss has had during that time span. Ever since we've distanced ourselves from the Old South imagery, we've done nothing but improve our university as an organization which educates and eventually betters the State of Mississippi.

I recently heard the story of Chancellor Gerald Turner trying to get a Phi Beta Kappa chapter to Ole Miss in the early 1990's(if it's not true or if I'm missing some details, please correct me). The story basically goes like this: Gerald Turner approaches PBK, asks "why can't we have a chapter?", to which they reply "because we don't want to associate ourselves with the Confederate imagery." Story goes that they specifically cited the Confederate Flag when speaking to Turner. I know some may say "well I don't care what they think," but Phi Beta Kappa is the single most prestigious honor society in the nation. Every university wants to establish a PBK chapter, but few are given that opportunity. Of the eight State schools in Mississippi, Ole Miss is the only one that can boast a PBK chapter. That's huge, and we have it because we took a step away from the past.

Look, Colonel Reb doesn't bother me. I own stuff with the Colonel on it and am not ashamed of this. I do, however, see how removing ourselves from these ever so precious "traditions" only benefits us in the long run. I'm not giving in to the "PC Police" or Barack Obama or whoever y'all think may be behind this; I'm being practical. I want to improve Ole Miss.

We all claim to love Ole Miss, but few of us are actually acting like it right now.

Hotty Toddy! Go Rebels Go!


END SOAPBOX

The Colonel's are just going to pick this apart and try to make points about how wrong you are, but I agree with you. Anything that helps is great and removing the old south helps.

[Leibniz]

Since we're being pragmatic and doing what takes to get more money, why not just sell the mascot and the nickname to the highest bidder. Ole miss could be the Fed Ex Airmen or the Nike Just Do Its. Other departments could grab sponsors as well. Pfizer could sponsor the pharmacy school. The sky is the limit. Just think of all the good that could be done.

Anyone hear the saying "the things you own, end up owning you?"
The way many are willing to trash their families and culture's traditions so they may take the green stuff from whomever is willing to give it is a scary and sad thing.

You're trying to prove a point by presenting an absurd hypothetical. I'm trying to prove a point by citing actual events which have happened. Please don't mislead people in the forum with this tactic. I don't think you realize just how much Ole Miss struggled to even stay accredited during the 60's-80's, let alone operate in the black. And to reduce my argument to "hey let's do this and we'll get money" is (once again) misleading and, frankly, insulting. While money is the fuel this engine runs on, the changes I proposed aren't simply expressed with "Ole Miss has more money." Because of all of the new opportunities Ole Miss has opened to itself, the value of an Ole Miss degree has increased and the everyday student experience is more enriching and unique than ever.

Are you honestly willing to throw an improved education and university experience away for a simple mascot? Seriously, weight the pros and cons.

Here's a saying for you: "don't cut off your nose to spite your face." Trying to bring Colonel Reb, FDWL, and all of things back would be doing just that. We'd be hurting Ole Miss more than we would ever want.

And my family and culture's traditions are way more complex and run much, much deeper than a dude in a foam suit walking around at football games. I would like to think that applies to everyone here, so do yourself a favor and don't cheapen your identity.

The suggestions I made were sarcastic(did i really need to say that). As far as Ole Miss's history, yes when dropping anything from or distancing from it's history it does help the public national image. However, the University of Mississippi exist to educate the people of Mississippi, not to pander to national worldviews.

And no my family culture does not revolve around a fuzzy costume(though I can not say the same for the LSU fans in it), but I am not so blind to see that this is a battle(albeit silly platform in the grand scheme of things) concerning the inner identity and the outer identity of the University of Mississippi. We both want OM to be a good school. I just would prefer that Ole Miss strive to be a unique University that give the people of Mississippi the opportunity of higher education while celebrating the history and traditions of the people of Mississippi. You seem to seek the goal for OM to be a University that gives the people of Mississippi an education at a that is held highly by national standards. Are either goals wrong; no. I want Ole Miss to be THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI not the NATIONAL UNIVERSITY in Oxford(regardless of how prestigious).

As far as the education being better today than it was however many years ago that I will argue against that to my grave. During any period of time many have learned greatly and received a degree and many have learned little and received a degree. Fancy objects do not make an intelligent and capable person.

[Chucky_38]

Since we're being pragmatic and doing what takes to get more money, why not just sell the mascot and the nickname to the highest bidder. Ole miss could be the Fed Ex Airmen or the Nike Just Do Its. Other departments could grab sponsors as well. Pfizer could sponsor the pharmacy school. The sky is the limit. Just think of all the good that could be done.

Anyone hear the saying "the things you own, end up owning you?"
The way many are willing to trash their families and culture's traditions so they may take the green stuff from whomever is willing to give it is a scary and sad thing.

You're trying to prove a point by presenting an absurd hypothetical. I'm trying to prove a point by citing actual events which have happened. Please don't mislead people in the forum with this tactic. I don't think you realize just how much Ole Miss struggled to even stay accredited during the 60's-80's, let alone operate in the black. And to reduce my argument to "hey let's do this and we'll get money" is (once again) misleading and, frankly, insulting. While money is the fuel this engine runs on, the changes I proposed aren't simply expressed with "Ole Miss has more money." Because of all of the new opportunities Ole Miss has opened to itself, the value of an Ole Miss degree has increased and the everyday student experience is more enriching and unique than ever.

Are you honestly willing to throw an improved education and university experience away for a simple mascot? Seriously, weight the pros and cons.

Here's a saying for you: "don't cut off your nose to spite your face." Trying to bring Colonel Reb, FDWL, and all of things back would be doing just that. We'd be hurting Ole Miss more than we would ever want.

And my family and culture's traditions are way more complex and run much, much deeper than a dude in a foam suit walking around at football games. I would like to think that applies to everyone here, so do yourself a favor and don't cheapen your identity.

The suggestions I made were sarcastic(did i really need to say that). As far as Ole Miss's history, yes when dropping anything from or distancing from it's history it does help the public national image. However, the University of Mississippi exist to educate the people of Mississippi, not to pander to national worldviews.

And no my family culture does not revolve around a fuzzy costume(though I can not say the same for the LSU fans in it), but I am not so blind to see that this is a battle(albeit silly platform in the grand scheme of things) concerning the inner identity and the outer identity of the University of Mississippi. We both want OM to be a good school. I just would prefer that Ole Miss strive to be a unique University that give the people of Mississippi the opportunity of higher education while celebrating the history and traditions of the people of Mississippi. You seem to seek the goal for OM to be a University that gives the people of Mississippi an education at a that is held highly by national standards. Are either goals wrong; no. I want Ole Miss to be THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI not the NATIONAL UNIVERSITY in Oxford(regardless of how prestigious).

As far as the education being better today than it was however many years ago that I will argue against that to my grave. During any period of time many have learned greatly and received a degree and many have learned little and received a degree. Fancy objects do not make an intelligent and capable person.

This is where we just have different ideas on what Ole Miss should be. I believe she should be a "Great American Public University." Not just for Mississippi, but for everyone. Similar to Notre Dame. Thats not an Indiana school. Its Notre Dame. Same for Ole Miss I wish. The school for Mississippi and only Mississippi is in Starkville. Ole Miss is better than that.

[rebelliousb]

"The suggestions I made were sarcastic(did i really need to say that). As far as Ole Miss's history, yes when dropping anything from or distancing from it's history it does help the public national image. However, the University of Mississippi exist to educate the people of Mississippi, not to pander to national worldviews.

And no my family culture does not revolve around a fuzzy costume(though I can not say the same for the LSU fans in it), but I am not so blind to see that this is a battle(albeit silly platform in the grand scheme of things) concerning the inner identity and the outer identity of the University of Mississippi. We both want OM to be a good school. I just would prefer that Ole Miss strive to be a unique University that give the people of Mississippi the opportunity of higher education while celebrating the history and traditions of the people of Mississippi. You seem to seek the goal for OM to be a University that gives the people of Mississippi an education at a that is held highly by national standards. Are either goals wrong; no. I want Ole Miss to be THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI not the NATIONAL UNIVERSITY in Oxford(regardless of how prestigious).

As far as the education being better today than it was however many years ago that I will argue against that to my grave. During any period of time many have learned greatly and received a degree and many have learned little and received a degree. Fancy objects do not make an intelligent and capable person."

And how does the Colonel or lack of one factor in? Just as OM should not pander to national world views..it certainly should not pander to a vocal minority who live in the past, no matter how deep the pockets

[felicianareb]

"The suggestions I made were sarcastic(did i really need to say that). As far as Ole Miss's history, yes when dropping anything from or distancing from it's history it does help the public national image. However, the University of Mississippi exist to educate the people of Mississippi, not to pander to national worldviews.

And no my family culture does not revolve around a fuzzy costume(though I can not say the same for the LSU fans in it), but I am not so blind to see that this is a battle(albeit silly platform in the grand scheme of things) concerning the inner identity and the outer identity of the University of Mississippi. We both want OM to be a good school. I just would prefer that Ole Miss strive to be a unique University that give the people of Mississippi the opportunity of higher education while celebrating the history and traditions of the people of Mississippi. You seem to seek the goal for OM to be a University that gives the people of Mississippi an education at a that is held highly by national standards. Are either goals wrong; no. I want Ole Miss to be THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI not the NATIONAL UNIVERSITY in Oxford(regardless of how prestigious).

As far as the education being better today than it was however many years ago that I will argue against that to my grave. During any period of time many have learned greatly and received a degree and many have learned little and received a degree. Fancy objects do not make an intelligent and capable person."

And how does the Colonel or lack of one factor in? Just as OM should not pander to national world views..it certainly should not pander to a vocal minority who live in the past, no matter how deep the pockets

Once again, the Colonel is not the issue. The powers that be are pandering to national and world views that are not compatible with the average Mississippian. Finally, everyone lives in the past, whether they acknowledge it or understand it... Faulkner, Proust, and others have covered that subject fairly well. You write as if the "past" is a dirty word to you.

[done]

The fun (and amazing positive press) continues...


http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/28/admiral-a ... -ole-miss/

[rebelliousb]

The fun (and amazing positive press) continues...


http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/28/admiral-a ... -ole-miss/

All it says is you (plural) have been heard...how can you scream and then act appalled when someone reports they hear screaming? All I see in this story is that there are still a few who still long for the good ol' days...and Ackbar gives them a soap box. TMZ is reminding the world that not everyone at OM is ready to let go of anything. If this is BAD PRESS...you guys created it with all the moaning..

[rebelliousb]

"The suggestions I made were sarcastic(did i really need to say that). As far as Ole Miss's history, yes when dropping anything from or distancing from it's history it does help the public national image. However, the University of Mississippi exist to educate the people of Mississippi, not to pander to national worldviews.

And no my family culture does not revolve around a fuzzy costume(though I can not say the same for the LSU fans in it), but I am not so blind to see that this is a battle(albeit silly platform in the grand scheme of things) concerning the inner identity and the outer identity of the University of Mississippi. We both want OM to be a good school. I just would prefer that Ole Miss strive to be a unique University that give the people of Mississippi the opportunity of higher education while celebrating the history and traditions of the people of Mississippi. You seem to seek the goal for OM to be a University that gives the people of Mississippi an education at a that is held highly by national standards. Are either goals wrong; no. I want Ole Miss to be THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI not the NATIONAL UNIVERSITY in Oxford(regardless of how prestigious).

As far as the education being better today than it was however many years ago that I will argue against that to my grave. During any period of time many have learned greatly and received a degree and many have learned little and received a degree. Fancy objects do not make an intelligent and capable person."

And how does the Colonel or lack of one factor in? Just as OM should not pander to national world views..it certainly should not pander to a vocal minority who live in the past, no matter how deep the pockets

Once again, the Colonel is not the issue. The powers that be are pandering to national and world views that are not compatible with the average Mississippian. Finally, everyone lives in the past, whether they acknowledge it or understand it... Faulkner, Proust, and others have covered that subject fairly well. You write as if the "past" is a dirty word to you.

I have no problem with our past as southerners or Mississippians. Northerners should be apologizing to all of us for the war atrocities handed out by Sherman, Grierson and others. We catch more hell for ours because so many of us cling to it, refuse to acknowledge it and long for it. My post was to point out that if indeed OM does exist to educate it's students...where's the discussion about that every week? Why is the choice of a mascot such a divisive topic...when it helps no one accomplish the stated objective and does nothing to impede it?

[done]

The fun (and amazing positive press) continues...


http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/28/admiral-a ... -ole-miss/

All it says is you (plural) have been heard...how can you scream and then act appalled when someone reports they hear screaming? All I see in this story is that there are still a few who still long for the good ol' days...and Ackbar gives them a soap box. TMZ is reminding the world that not everyone at OM is ready to let go of anything. If this is BAD PRESS...you guys created it with all the moaning..

Let me be clear, while I liked Col Reb okay, I am in no way trying to get him back....my ONLY issue with all of this is that by opening this ridiculous issue up again by pretending to allow the students (or anyone else for that matter) to have any meaningful input to a process that will in the end be dictated by a very few folks with a definite (and maybe well intentioned but I believe misguided) agenda, they have once again re-hashed and given new life to the old ridiculous contention that a cartoon character on the sidelines at Ole Miss represented slave ownership or some other bogus vestige of racism.

At this point we are much much better off with no mascot at all than to re-hash this old crap. And I do believe it is purposeful by the administration because they want to dig up the past as often as they can until they are rid of EVERYTHING (including "Rebels" and "Ole Miss"). Just my opinion. But people reacting negatively to this circus is not the problem...opening up the circus with this meaningless and ridiculous vote was the problem.

[felicianareb]

The fun (and amazing positive press) continues...


http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/28/admiral-a ... -ole-miss/

All it says is you (plural) have been heard...how can you scream and then act appalled when someone reports they hear screaming? All I see in this story is that there are still a few who still long for the good ol' days...and Ackbar gives them a soap box. TMZ is reminding the world that not everyone at OM is ready to let go of anything. If this is BAD PRESS...you guys created it with all the moaning..

Let me be clear, while I liked Col Reb okay, I am in no way trying to get him back....my ONLY issue with all of this is that by opening this ridiculous issue up again by pretending to allow the students (or anyone else for that matter) to have any meaningful input to a process that will in the end be dictated by a very few folks with a definite (and maybe well intentioned but I believe misguided) agenda, they have once again re-hashed and given new life to the old ridiculous contention that a cartoon character on the sidelines at Ole Miss represented slave ownership or some other bogus vestige of racism.

At this point we are much much better off with no mascot at all than to re-hash this old crap. And I do believe it is purposeful by the administration because they want to dig up the past as often as they can until they are rid of EVERYTHING (including "Rebels" and "Ole Miss"). Just my opinion. But people reacting negatively to this circus is not the problem...opening up the circus with this meaningless and ridiculous vote was the problem.

It's not just your opinion Chuck. It's mine too. There's also thirty years worth of Administration chicanery to back it up... They obviously don't believe that we as alumni or students are capable of hashing these things out and resolving them ourselves...... at least to their satisfaction.

[BobReb]

The fun (and amazing positive press) continues...


http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/28/admiral-a ... -ole-miss/

All it says is you (plural) have been heard...how can you scream and then act appalled when someone reports they hear screaming? All I see in this story is that there are still a few who still long for the good ol' days...and Ackbar gives them a soap box. TMZ is reminding the world that not everyone at OM is ready to let go of anything. If this is BAD PRESS...you guys created it with all the moaning..

Let me be clear, while I liked Col Reb okay, I am in no way trying to get him back....my ONLY issue with all of this is that by opening this ridiculous issue up again by pretending to allow the students (or anyone else for that matter) to have any meaningful input to a process that will in the end be dictated by a very few folks with a definite (and maybe well intentioned but I believe misguided) agenda, they have once again re-hashed and given new life to the old ridiculous contention that a cartoon character on the sidelines at Ole Miss represented slave ownership or some other bogus vestige of racism.

At this point we are much much better off with no mascot at all than to re-hash this old crap. And I do believe it is purposeful by the administration because they want to dig up the past as often as they can until they are rid of EVERYTHING (including "Rebels" and "Ole Miss"). Just my opinion. But people reacting negatively to this circus is not the problem...opening up the circus with this meaningless and ridiculous vote was the problem.

Agreed. I had hoped they would simply vote no. We would be just fine without a mascot. And to be sure, we certainly do not need an alien one?!?! Just continue on without one, I say. If you think of Bummer as an elephant, Florida as a gator, given time what will be be viewed as? A fictional SW's character that's ugly to behold?
This is all just foolishness.

[john_avery_fast]

[quote="BobReb]
Agreed. I had hoped they would simply vote no. We would be just fine without a mascot. And to be sure, we certainly do not need an alien one?!?! Just continue on without one, I say. If you think of Bummer as an elephant, Florida as a gator, given time what will be be viewed as? A fictional SW's character that's ugly to behold?
This is all just foolishness.[/quote]

While I respect and understand your point, I don't know anyone who thinks Bama and automatically thinks Elephant. Likewise, when I say Texas A&M, do you think of a collie, their on-field mascot? How about Stanford-do you think trees? Tennessee, do you think bluetick hound? Oklahoma uses a costume horse as well as a wagon, is that what comes to mind? Tulane, a pelican? Their are several others and the only one I can think of that has one nickname and a different mascot where the mascot pops into my mind first is Sebastian the Ibis at Miami, and even that kinda ties with the "U" symbol. So just b/c we MAY end up with an on-field mascot that doesn't match the team nickname doesn't necessarily mean that it will become what automatically pops into someone's mind when you say Ole Miss.

[done]

just b/c we MAY end up with an on-field mascot that doesn't match the team nickname doesn't necessarily mean that it will become what automatically pops into someone's mind when you say Ole Miss.

That is right...what will come to mind when you say Ole Miss will be..."aren't they the ones that keep trying to fix something that ain't broke?"

Right now the only recurring Ole Miss representative I want to see on the sidelines for football games is HOUSTON NUTT!

[rebelliousb]

just b/c we MAY end up with an on-field mascot that doesn't match the team nickname doesn't necessarily mean that it will become what automatically pops into someone's mind when you say Ole Miss.

That is right...what will come to mind when you say Ole Miss will be..."aren't they the ones that keep trying to fix something that ain't broke?"

Right now the only recurring Ole Miss representative I want to see on the sidelines for football games is HOUSTON NUTT!

And the entire defense?

[felicianareb]

just b/c we MAY end up with an on-field mascot that doesn't match the team nickname doesn't necessarily mean that it will become what automatically pops into someone's mind when you say Ole Miss.

That is right...what will come to mind when you say Ole Miss will be..."aren't they the ones that keep trying to fix something that ain't broke?"

Right now the only recurring Ole Miss representative I want to see on the sidelines for football games is HOUSTON NUTT!

And the entire defense?

What? No cheerleaders? Didn't know we had a testosterone crisis going here...