The Day After

bbqit · Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:04 am

there are games every organization has had to throw the tape away and forget the whole thing. we need to too.

lewindha · Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:27 am

The guys never gave up, that I agree totally. They played hard and were heavily outmanned.

IMO this comes down to coaching. Defensive coaching. On a lot of those long passes, we were there, but we didn't turn around and find the ball. Coaching. They were bigger, but there was also some very poor tackling. Don't know who exactly to pin that one on.

What Freeze said before the game was and is completely true. But you don't say it two minutes before kickoff on national tv. Lost a little respect for him there. Other than that, it's his offense and I think the offense is OK. 31 points should win a ball game(I know special teams scored one, so please don't lecture me).

Yes, Bo threw some picks. But here's what I don't get. You guys are making excuses for the defense who just gave up the most points by an Ole Miss team in almost 100 years. But Bo is getting crucified by some for staring down receivers and throwing 3 picks against a bigger/better defense. He still managed to help the team score 24 points. And like I said, 24 or 31 points should win you 'most' ballgames. Bo is also young and inexperienced, but he doesn't get the same yard stick as the defense apparently.

I stayed away from the prediction thread b/c I knew we hadn't really played anyone and neither had Texas. But Texas was ranked 13th or so, and while the pollsters do get some wrong, they get most of them right. I thought we had played well and might have a chance, but after the about the first quarter you could tell that Texas outmatched us and we were fighting tooth and nail for every yard or score.

I didn't expect to win this game, but I also didn't expect such a HUGE let down on defense. They could've scored another td at the end there. And had they not let up on that last drive, they might've scored earlier and gotten the ball back and scored again. So, yeah, Nutt's team may have given up 80 the other night, but 80 was a real possibility for this defense, too.

I don't get, in this situation, how Chuck and I are the negative nellies here. We're actually over defending the qb and offense that have been the biggest bright spot so far and apparently we're wrong about that. And we're upset about maybe the worst defensive performance in 100 years, but b/c our team is young and inexperienced and our coaches are new(and apparently can do no wrong according to some of you), we can't point that out. Everyone's been saying how the defensive backfield was a strength(I thought so, too). Ash looked like freaking Montana out there.

I don't get you guys sometimes.

beachbumreb · Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:53 am

I don't know about being negative and all that, however, making a big deal about our lack of defensive coaching after giving up 66 is a sign of absolute genius. I think we need to tell the C.I.A. about some of y'all. The grasp of the obvious is truly awe inspiring. I never would have realized we have any problems on defense or with our young team without having it pointed out to me.

lewindha · Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:01 am

beachbumreb wrote:I don't know about being negative and all that, however, making a big deal about our lack of defensive coaching after giving up 66 is a sign of absolute genius. I think we need to tell the C.I.A. about some of y'all. The grasp of the obvious is truly awe inspiring. I never would have realized we have any problems on defense or with our young team without having it pointed out to me.

Well it's about time some of you recognized my genius. The disturbing part, is that folks are acting like this isn't a big deal. Yes, were out-everything'd. But 66 points IS a big deal.

Tell me this, what's more alarming? The fact that last year's team did 'give up' and never gave up 66 points, or the fact that this team didn't 'give up' and did give up 66 points.

StrongRebel · Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:20 am

It comes down to one thing.

We have a 6' - 250lb starting nose guard on defense

Not much else needs to be said, but I will. The front seven is no where close to being able to stop a dominating running attack which in turns makes the safetie's first step is to come down to help on the run so you are now exposed to play-action with big passing plays.

You can squawk about people being out of placed and what have you, but the reason they were is because it took 10 guys to keep Texas from gaining more than 8 yards on every running play.

Also Texas was trying to make a point by scoring 66 points. They did not take their starters out until almost the end of the fourth quarter.

I promise you last year if Alabama and LSU wanted to hang 70 on us they could have, but they didn't because there was no chance of us coming back last year, and there was little chance this year, but this was a statement game for Texas.

rickochet2 · Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:24 am

lewindha wrote:The guys never gave up, that I agree totally. They played hard and were heavily outmanned.

IMO this comes down to coaching. Defensive coaching. On a lot of those long passes, we were there, but we didn't turn around and find the ball. Coaching. They were bigger, but there was also some very poor tackling. Don't know who exactly to pin that one on.

What Freeze said before the game was and is completely true. But you don't say it two minutes before kickoff on national tv. Lost a little respect for him there. Other than that, it's his offense and I think the offense is OK. 31 points should win a ball game(I know special teams scored one, so please don't lecture me).

Yes, Bo threw some picks. But here's what I don't get. You guys are making excuses for the defense who just gave up the most points by an Ole Miss team in almost 100 years. But Bo is getting crucified by some for staring down receivers and throwing 3 picks against a bigger/better defense. He still managed to help the team score 24 points. And like I said, 24 or 31 points should win you 'most' ballgames. Bo is also young and inexperienced, but he doesn't get the same yard stick as the defense apparently.

I stayed away from the prediction thread b/c I knew we hadn't really played anyone and neither had Texas. But Texas was ranked 13th or so, and while the pollsters do get some wrong, they get most of them right. I thought we had played well and might have a chance, but after the about the first quarter you could tell that Texas outmatched us and we were fighting tooth and nail for every yard or score.

I didn't expect to win this game, but I also didn't expect such a HUGE let down on defense. They could've scored another td at the end there. And had they not let up on that last drive, they might've scored earlier and gotten the ball back and scored again. So, yeah, Nutt's team may have given up 80 the other night, but 80 was a real possibility for this defense, too.

I don't get, in this situation, how Chuck and I are the negative nellies here. We're actually over defending the qb and offense that have been the biggest bright spot so far and apparently we're wrong about that. And we're upset about maybe the worst defensive performance in 100 years, but b/c our team is young and inexperienced and our coaches are new(and apparently can do no wrong according to some of you), we can't point that out. Everyone's been saying how the defensive backfield was a strength(I thought so, too). Ash looked like freaking Montana out there.

I don't get you guys sometimes.

There were no excuses given at all. Facts were stated that we were out manned. These are not excuses, you stated this as a fact. Players did attempt to make plays b/c they were in the right area. Many were just miss timed or unmade. Several of the deep balls, the defender was there & either he miss timed his jump or miss played the ball & went so far as to take himself out of the play.

As far as Bo is concerned, I believe you will see that most are saying that if you give Bo a pass for his mistakes then the same must be done for the D. Also, Chuck was giving Bo complete credit for the 31 pts scored. He was truly only a part of 21. He was part of the field goal, but Brunetti & Moncrief put us at the 23.

While I will reserve my right to criticize the staff, it is too early imo to let out on a tirade as Chuck did. Chuck has put on Bo colored glasses & no one else can hold a candle to him. Bo does no wrong. The mistakes he makes are b/c he is young & is learning. If you can explain to me how this does not also apply to the D then I will withdraw my criticism of Chuck's criticism.

I will be the 1st to tell you that I am not sold on Womack, but it is too early to throw him, & more importantly our team under the bus.

BTW our D did not give up 66. BO gave up 7.

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:38 am

Here is a post from another board that I generally agree with:

I knew we weren't a good team, but I thought Texas was overrated and I thought we could hang in with them given some breaks. Well, unless I know nothing about football, which is totally possible, I think Texas is pretty good team.

I knew we were in trouble on one play specifically, their RB ran a counter to the short side of the field and one of our DL shot the gap, and ran right into him, and he got ran flat over. Just ran him over like he was a CB. The next play or maybe it was a few plays later, Charles Sawyer got steamrolled by their pulling guard. At that point I knew that we were in trouble. We didn't really have any options defensively. We would put 8 in the box and that would open up the passing game. Their WRs were d*** fast and overall our DB play which I thought would be solid, wasn't.

I was very impressed with the size and speed of Texas' defense. I thought they were SEC level; They just looked like an SEC defense, big, strong and fast up front. LB's that weigh 250 lbs and can run. I didn't see that coming. Despite that, we still moved the ball against them. Sure it wasn't consistent, but its not going to be. We aren't a good football team yet, but I like some of the offensive pieces.

When I read some of the posts on here about the defense and how Wommack was to blame, I really think back to 2008 and 2009 where Ole Miss had back to back Top 20 defenses in the country with Tyrone Nix as defensive coordinator. The same Tyrone Nix that couldn't stop Jacksonville State.

There is simply a fundamental misunderstanding with how coaching works on the offensive and defensive side of the ball by some of our fans and most football fans to be honest. Offenses can scheme around talent deficiencies to create one on one matchups that despite being out gunned in 9 of 11 spots, you can take advantage of having two guys that create mismatches over a defense. You can try and be inventive and come up with misdirections, option plays, have a Running QB that creates more opportunities for success despite talent issues. Defensively, you can't hide a lack of talent. Id say about 95% of the time, the success and failure of your defense will rise and fall with the talent you have; Now you can have solid talent and poor coaching and get results like the 2009 Egg Bowl, but that goes back to my first point where an offense can scheme around talent issues; Defensively if your front 7 can not stop a counter play, or a HB dive play, there is no amount of defensive scheming, whether it is stunting, slanting, or running a 4-4; The bottom line is that offenses come down to coaching, defenses come down to talent and any actual argument to the contrary is flawed.

Was I happy that we got our ass kicked by Texas, of course not. At kickoff I thought we were going to run them off the field. Then I noticed how big they looked and I noticed how their RB's looked bigger than our DE and DT's. I still hoped we would win, but I knew we were fighting an uphill battle. I was proud of the guys not giving up. I hated that we were simply out gunned, but I thought the team gave a *beep* and kept trying to score.

I know this, Arkansas is on the brink of having a 2011 Ole Miss type season, AU is on the brink of going 4-8, MSU should have lost to Troy, Vanderbilt has not won a Division I game yet this year and we have Tulane this weekend. I would like to simply win this weekend, get to 3-1 and then go to Tuscaloosa and hope our kids fight the way they did against Texas.

lewindha · Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:56 am

We had no sacks, no int's, I think they fumbled once, but recovered it.

We gave up 676 yards on defense. Good coaches make adjustments and do there best to neutralize what was going on. Are we going to completely stop them? Hell no. But I really believe we could've slowed them down. I don't really blame the players on this one, I firmly believe this was about coaching. I'm not saying fire anyone, but IMO it's worse when you can tell that the players are actually trying and still getting destroyed like that. It was a good team, who we may have just caught on the wrong night, but I saw nothing that gives me hope for defensive improvement.

On the other side, though, we had 170 rushing yards and 229 passing yards. All against what I thought was a pretty good defense. We actually rushed for over 200, but 170 with the sacks and some tfl's. Are there improvements to be made on offense? Yes. Do we have young QB who stares at his receivers? Yes. But he didn't put up a blank. Or better put, the offense as a whole didn't put up a blank.

676 yards, no sacks, no turnovers is about as much of a blank that a defense can put up.

But let's keep bashing Wallace and giving the D a pass.

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:06 am

lewindha wrote:We had no sacks, no int's, I think they fumbled once, but recovered it.

We gave up 676 yards on defense. Good coaches make adjustments and do there best to neutralize what was going on. Are we going to completely stop them? Hell no. But I really believe we could've slowed them down. I don't really blame the players on this one, I firmly believe this was about coaching. I'm not saying fire anyone, but IMO it's worse when you can tell that the players are actually trying and still getting destroyed like that. It was a good team, who we may have just caught on the wrong night, but I saw nothing that gives me hope for defensive improvement.

On the other side, though, we had 170 rushing yards and 229 passing yards. All against what I thought was a pretty good defense. We actually rushed for over 200, but 170 with the sacks and some tfl's. Are there improvements to be made on offense? Yes. Do we have young QB who stares at his receivers? Yes. But he didn't put up a blank. Or better put, the offense as a whole didn't put up a blank.

676 yards, no sacks, no turnovers is about as much of a blank that a defense can put up.

But let's keep bashing Wallace and giving the D a pass.

Give us our two TDs back and we have over 500 yards against a legitimate top 10 team of 4-5* athletes. If a team nowhere near the top 30 can score 45 and rack up 500 yards on a top ten team, why couldn't a top 10 team get 600 and 66 on a team not in the top 40?

Also, take back the pick six and the BS interference call downfield, and it's 45-52.
And that is without factoring in the momentum shifts from the pick, interference call and the two TDs called back. If the crew calls one of the 60 holding calls against TX, that would change the way they were playin also.

Call those excuses, but those things shift momentum and affect the outcome.

rickochet2 · Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:29 am

lewindha wrote:We had no sacks, no int's, I think they fumbled once, but recovered it.

We gave up 676 yards on defense. Good coaches make adjustments and do there best to neutralize what was going on. Are we going to completely stop them? Hell no. But I really believe we could've slowed them down. I don't really blame the players on this one, I firmly believe this was about coaching. I'm not saying fire anyone, but IMO it's worse when you can tell that the players are actually trying and still getting destroyed like that. It was a good team, who we may have just caught on the wrong night, but I saw nothing that gives me hope for defensive improvement.

Are you saying that good coaching can overcome lack of talent. Really?????? Good coaching can slow GREAT Talent down, that is all. It cannot stop it.

Even great coaching cannot overcome depleted talent. If it could you would see FCS schools beating FBS schools ALL the time. Many of these games are close for 2 or so quarters & then it gets out of hand.

Sir, you are delusional if you believe that Sat night was anything more than the exposure of this type of beating. We are 13 schollies under the limit. Lost several starters from last yr & add on to that the poor recruiting, & retention of, & you get a team that is full of YOUNG, INEXPERIENCED, & UNDERSIZED players. They are full of heart & will give everything to this program.

That display is totally about coaching.

lewindha · Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:49 am

Did you read my post?

Are we going to completely stop them? Hell no. But I really believe we could've slowed them down.

lewindha · Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:50 am

If you guys are right, then let's fire the defensive staff and take their salary money and put it towards recruiting better defensive athletes. Coaches don't matter. THAT is delusional. Look at the Saints. And Arkansas

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:54 am

Tampa Bay gave up 600 yards yesterday to a team with a losing record at the time.

JustBlues · Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:55 am

lewindha wrote:If you guys are right, then let's fire the defensive staff and take their salary money and put it towards recruiting better defensive athletes. Coaches don't matter. THAT is delusional. Look at the Saints. And Arkansas

I'll say it again. You don't have an epic failure like that without multiple problems. We are shorthanded and that was one factor. We are young and that was one factor. Those things will change, hopefully for the better, but in the short term there is nothing we can do about them. However, the coaches, at least on the defensive side, did a poor job. In the case of some of the younger coaches, that will improve. In the case of Wommack, it is what it is. He has been coaching long enough that I don't see much changing there. This is his third time in the SEC and the other two times didn't turn out well. Keep doing the same thing and you'll keep having the same results. He is a fine sunbelt defensive coordinator. Texas, Alabama, LSU, Arkansas and etc. are not in the sunbelt.

lewindha · Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:57 am

rebelliousb wrote:Tampa Bay gave up 600 yards yesterday to a team with a losing record at the time.

I did not know that Ash was Eli, the second coming. I also was not aware that the Longhorns are defending Super Bowl champions. I take it all back.