Houston Nutt vs. David Cutcliffe

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Heath
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Walkerton wrote:Some things that aren't talked about in Nutt's tenure at Arkansas, he suffered NCAA sanctions that cost him 23 recruits over a 5 year period because of rules broken before he arrived.
In his 3rd year many fans had already turned on him because of poor recruiting classes but recruits were not coming because of the NCAA investigation and the rumors of a possible death penalty. To make things even worse the media followed the fans lead and turned on him too.
He really had a tough road here but I think he did a great job dealing with it all and he never used the NCAA deal as an excuse.

Frank Broyles is a legend in Arkansas and many of his assistants went on to be great coaches (Joe Gibbs, Hayden Fry, Johnny Majors, Barry Switzer, 8O Jackie Sherrill 8O , Jimmie Johnson, and Barry Switzer are just some) Frank Broyles said on more than one occasion that he believed Houston Nutt was the best to ever coach at Arkansas.
He does things the right way and his players graduation rates are phenomenal.

If the fans and media in Oxford give him a chance and stay behind him I believe you guys will be rewarded.
You make some great points and I agree with you on all of them...except 1. Can you guess which one? :lol:
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Walkerton wrote:Some things that aren't talked about in Nutt's tenure at Arkansas, he suffered NCAA sanctions that cost him 23 recruits over a 5 year period because of rules broken before he arrived.
Ummm, no.

Facts Summary: Violations of NCAA legislation regarding extra benefits, recruiting, financial aid, employment and a failure to monitor.

Violation Summary: Violations included: extra benefits, recruiting, financial aid, employment, supplemental provision and a failure to monitor arising out of impermissible employment of numerous football and men's basketball student-athletes.

Penalty Summary: Public reprimand and censure; probation for a period of three years; reduction in the total football grants-in-aid by two for the 2005-06 academic year; limited the number of expense paid visits in the sport of football to 50 for the 2003-04 academic year; annual compliance reporting.
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Sorry I went by what the talk shows were reporting during that period. The UofA penalized themselves 3 football recruits each of the first 2 years during the investigation. The NCAA dragged that investigation out for nearly 2 entire years. There were a lot of potential recruits lost from that point on...
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WELL, I think Nutt is going to continue to recruit unlike Cutcliffe who evidently quit doing so once Eli got there. That 2004 team was so void of talent that it was pathetic. At a time when recruiting should have been at all time HIGH, old Coach Cut decided to take some time off. That's the reason why I have no problem with how he was shown the door.
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MikeStone wrote:WELL, I think Nutt is going to continue to recruit unlike Cutcliffe who evidently quit doing so once Eli got there. That 2004 team was so void of talent that it was pathetic. At a time when recruiting should have been at all time HIGH, old Coach Cut decided to take some time off. That's the reason why I have no problem with how he was shown the door.
The only thing OM did wrong was in waiting so long to say, see ya. As I have said many times, half-time at the Music bowl should have resulted in a large pink slip. Couldn't hit, tackle, pass rush, stop the run or even slow down the the team across the line. Don't think we even touched 'em that night. His ONE and only offensive play was run Deuce up the middle, over, and over again and again, then on 3rd and 20 have Romo throw. I knew it, WVA knew it, and it didn't work the 1st time or the 90th. It was unfair to Deuce and the entire team, and it was a prime example of his *beep* poor coaching. Duke can be thankful for one thing, their FB program can't get any worse then it was before his arrival.
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Walkerton wrote:Some things that aren't talked about in Nutt's tenure at Arkansas, he suffered NCAA sanctions that cost him 23 recruits over a 5 year period because of rules broken before he arrived.
In his 3rd year many fans had already turned on him because of poor recruiting classes but recruits were not coming because of the NCAA investigation and the rumors of a possible death penalty. To make things even worse the media followed the fans lead and turned on him too.
He really had a tough road here but I think he did a great job dealing with it all and he never used the NCAA deal as an excuse.

Frank Broyles is a legend in Arkansas and many of his assistants went on to be great coaches (Joe Gibbs, Hayden Fry, Johnny Majors, Barry Switzer, Jackie Sherrill, Jimmie Johnson, and Barry Switzer are just some) Frank Broyles said on more than one occasion that he believed Houston Nutt was the best to ever coach at Arkansas.
He does things the right way and his players graduation rates are phenomenal.

If the fans and media in Oxford give him a chance and stay behind him I believe you guys will be rewarded.
The NCAA cloud was always blown out of proportion, just as you doing it now. Arkansas was never threatened with the death penalty. The recruiting classes were never that good because Nutt was never that good of a recruiter.

Arkansas puts out at most 6-7 real solid D-I prospects a year, an late in Nutts tenure, well after the "disastrous" NCAA investigation, he wasn't able to keep very many of these top in state recruits at home. Namely: Cedric Houston (Tenn), Bartley Webb (Notre Dame), Lee Ziemba(Auburn), Kodi Burns (Auburn), Broderick Green(USC) among others. Lets not forget that Damian Williams and Ben Cleveland had passed on the Hogs and were Florida commits and that Mitch Mustain had committed and de-committed. Nutt had to hire their HS Coach to get the kids to even consider Fayetteville. This last year, Joe Adams was USC bound until Nutt left. The top in state QB Tyler Wilson was headed out of state because he didn't even get an offer from Nutt. Hell, Nutt could of had Ryan Mallet on board, but Nutt insisted that Mallet play TE at the Razorback camp (Mallet was the #2 HS QB behind Jimmy Clausen).

No doubt about it, Nutt is a pathetic recruiter. If a recruit doesn't grow up wanting to be a Reb, then you guys are just SOL, unless the kid has grade issues and other teams fall off of him (this is the reasoning behind OM's #47 ranked recruiting class by Rivals).

Don't let go of the rope guys, your just a couple of plays away from undefeated. Your coach is special!
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boardero wrote:
Walkerton wrote:Some things that aren't talked about in Nutt's tenure at Arkansas, he suffered NCAA sanctions that cost him 23 recruits over a 5 year period because of rules broken before he arrived.
In his 3rd year many fans had already turned on him because of poor recruiting classes but recruits were not coming because of the NCAA investigation and the rumors of a possible death penalty. To make things even worse the media followed the fans lead and turned on him too.
He really had a tough road here but I think he did a great job dealing with it all and he never used the NCAA deal as an excuse.

Frank Broyles is a legend in Arkansas and many of his assistants went on to be great coaches (Joe Gibbs, Hayden Fry, Johnny Majors, Barry Switzer, Jackie Sherrill, Jimmie Johnson, and Barry Switzer are just some) Frank Broyles said on more than one occasion that he believed Houston Nutt was the best to ever coach at Arkansas.
He does things the right way and his players graduation rates are phenomenal.

If the fans and media in Oxford give him a chance and stay behind him I believe you guys will be rewarded.
The NCAA cloud was always blown out of proportion, just as you doing it now. Arkansas was never threatened with the death penalty. The recruiting classes were never that good because Nutt was never that good of a recruiter.

Arkansas puts out at most 6-7 real solid D-I prospects a year, an late in Nutts tenure, well after the "disastrous" NCAA investigation, he wasn't able to keep very many of these top in state recruits at home. Namely: Cedric Houston (Tenn), Bartley Webb (Notre Dame), Lee Ziemba(Auburn), Kodi Burns (Auburn), Broderick Green(USC) among others. Lets not forget that Damian Williams and Ben Cleveland had passed on the Hogs and were Florida commits and that Mitch Mustain had committed and de-committed. Nutt had to hire their HS Coach to get the kids to even consider Fayetteville. This last year, Joe Adams was USC bound until Nutt left. The top in state QB Tyler Wilson was headed out of state because he didn't even get an offer from Nutt. Hell, Nutt could of had Ryan Mallet on board, but Nutt insisted that Mallet play TE at the Razorback camp (Mallet was the #2 HS QB behind Jimmy Clausen).

No doubt about it, Nutt is a pathetic recruiter. If a recruit doesn't grow up wanting to be a Reb, then you guys are just SOL, unless the kid has grade issues and other teams fall off of him (this is the reasoning behind OM's #47 ranked recruiting class by Rivals).

Don't let go of the rope guys, your just a couple of plays away from undefeated. Your coach is special!
Man, you can't the UNIQUE, ONE-OF-A-KIND insight like that anywhere else than from a Hog fan.
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If were really comparing Nutt and Cutcliffe lets look at what they did head to head.
2004 Nutt(Arkansas) 35-3: 5-6 overall = Cutcliffe (Ole Miss) 4-7 overall
2003 Cutcliffe/OM 19-7: 4-7 overall = Nutt/ARK 9-4 overall
2002 Nutt/ARK 48-28: 9-5 overall = Cut/OM 7-6 overall
2001 Nutt/ARK 58-56: 7-5 overall = Cut/OM 7-4 overall
2000 Cut/OM 38-24: 7-5 overall = Nutt/ARK 6-6 overall
1999 Cut/OM 38-16: 8-4 overall = Nutt/ARK 8-4 overall

Nutt inherited a program that had two losing seasons the previous two years to his arrival.
Cutcliffe inherited a program that had two winning seasons the previous two years to his arrival.

In my Opinion why many people feel Nutt is better is that the only teams he loses to are SEC teams minus his bowl game loses, Texas(who he also beat) and USC. Cutcliffe losing to Wyoming and Memphis in the same season and Memphis a couple of other times such as the 2003 season. Also Nutt has made it to the SEC Championship game twice something Ole Miss has never done.
done

Y'all can argue valid points, but let's make one thing clear...the best post Vaught Ole Miss team ('03) was recruited AND coached by David Cutcliffe.

When another coach at least ties for the West division crown with the Rebels or only loses one SEC game, then and only then will they be qualified to enter this debate.

Period!
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Rebchuck18 wrote:Y'all can argue valid points, but let's make one thing clear...the best post Vaught Ole Miss team ('03) was recruited AND coached by David Cutcliffe.

When another coach at least ties for the West division crown with the Rebels or only loses one SEC game, then and only then will they be qualified to enter this debate.

Period!
How long before the next Manning QB? And does anyone think, that Cutcliffe would have done as well with any other QB? Not that he really tried to develop one.
You've just got to learn from the wrong things you've done. I came off the rebound, started looking around, figured out it's time to have a little fun.
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parrotreb wrote:
Rebchuck18 wrote:Y'all can argue valid points, but let's make one thing clear...the best post Vaught Ole Miss team ('03) was recruited AND coached by David Cutcliffe.

When another coach at least ties for the West division crown with the Rebels or only loses one SEC game, then and only then will they be qualified to enter this debate.

Period!
How long before the next Manning QB? And does anyone think, that Cutcliffe would have done as well with any other QB? Not that he really tried to develop one.
How old is Little Arch (or is he a WR like his daddy)? And no, not even close.
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bleuwolfe wrote:
parrotreb wrote:
Rebchuck18 wrote:Y'all can argue valid points, but let's make one thing clear...the best post Vaught Ole Miss team ('03) was recruited AND coached by David Cutcliffe.

When another coach at least ties for the West division crown with the Rebels or only loses one SEC game, then and only then will they be qualified to enter this debate.

Period!
How long before the next Manning QB? And does anyone think, that Cutcliffe would have done as well with any other QB? Not that he really tried to develop one.
How old is Little Arch (or is he a WR like his daddy)? And no, not even close.
"Oh dear, now I shall have to create more martians!" If only we could create more Mannings like Marvin does Martians.
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The biggest problem HDN had with recruiting to UA was the loud mouth negativity (you would know about that boardero) beginning in his second year. You guys just got louder and louder every year. No coach could recruit to UofA with so many so-call razrbk fans dragging your coach thru the mud. Many of you pig fans made an art form of creating lies about your coach and fought him every step of the way. HDN did an incredible job at UA considering the crap dished up by you so-called fans
done

parrotreb wrote:
Rebchuck18 wrote:Y'all can argue valid points, but let's make one thing clear...the best post Vaught Ole Miss team ('03) was recruited AND coached by David Cutcliffe.

When another coach at least ties for the West division crown with the Rebels or only loses one SEC game, then and only then will they be qualified to enter this debate.

Period!
How long before the next Manning QB? And does anyone think, that Cutcliffe would have done as well with any other QB? Not that he really tried to develop one.
Would Mack Brown have won a NC without Vince Young? I have never seen a game where one player was so much the difference. Would the Patriots have won a Super Bowl without Brady?

I think it is somewhat unfair to call a coach a bad recruiter and then minimize his 10 win season because the QB he recruited led us to those 10 wins.

But hey, that's just me.

But that is all in the past. We just need to get 6 wins this year so that some time soon maybe we can get 10 wins again....
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parrotreb
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Rebchuck18 wrote:
parrotreb wrote:
Rebchuck18 wrote:Y'all can argue valid points, but let's make one thing clear...the best post Vaught Ole Miss team ('03) was recruited AND coached by David Cutcliffe.

When another coach at least ties for the West division crown with the Rebels or only loses one SEC game, then and only then will they be qualified to enter this debate.

Period!
How long before the next Manning QB? And does anyone think, that Cutcliffe would have done as well with any other QB? Not that he really tried to develop one.
Would Mack Brown have won a NC without Vince Young? I have never seen a game where one player was so much the difference. Would the Patriots have won a Super Bowl without Brady?

I think it is somewhat unfair to call a coach a bad recruiter and then minimize his 10 win season because the QB he recruited led us to those 10 wins.

But hey, that's just me.

But that is all in the past. We just need to get 6 wins this year so that some time soon maybe we can get 10 wins again....
I am still not convinced that Cutcliffe did all that much to recruit Eli other than show up. The whole deal was to hire a coach that Eli would play for so maybe that counts as the coach recruiting.

As to the first two questions, in the world of what if, where we do win 6 this year, no and maybe. Outside of Young, the Longhorns had what, maybe 50 yards of offense in the NC game? As for the other guy, the team was awfully good so maybe.

Just remember where I am coming from, if I had been AD, Cut would have been fired at the latest, the winter before Eli's senior season, after the Kentucky flirtation. But I wouldn't have hired Orgeron. Not sure who I would have hired because I don't remember who was available in the winter of 02-03.
You've just got to learn from the wrong things you've done. I came off the rebound, started looking around, figured out it's time to have a little fun.
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